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The Lord of the Rings; Middle-Earth (Franchise) entertainment news By the end of Return of the King, Saruman has lost his powers and has resorted to becoming a lowly criminal. If he would have been strong enough to control the ring, what would have happened to Sauron? LEGO did such a great job with the printing on the figures! Whats the threshold of power for a wielder of the one ring to defeat Sauron? Still, this is a point to consider. In the hypothetic situation where Sauron thought, or knew, that Saruman had the Ring, I think he would have responded in a similar way. He easily would have had mastery over the ring itself. One other Seeing Stone has been accounted for: the Stone of Minas Anor. Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. Or perhaps his lust for power would have blinded him to that? But there isn't a blind following of obedience in Tolkien at least not with wise and just characters depending on the circumstances. Gandalf found out that Saruman had abandoned his mission when the White Wizard asked him to join forces with Sauron. The Mystics, believing the Stranger is Sauron, tell him he must go to Rhn to fully explore his powers. Saruman didn't know what Gandalf wanted to say, but he could guess. Imagine that, after breaking of Fellowship, Saruman`s Uruk-Hai capture Frodo and bring him, with the ring, to Isengard. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Saruman had an opportunity to take a Ring of Power, but didn't. Was the ring more risk than it was worth? The greatest act of disobedience in LOTR had possibly the greatest consequences which in the end saved the Quest of the Ring and saved Middle-Earth that being Eomer's act of disobedience. He fought Uruk-hai (who had captured Merry and Pippin thinking they were Frodo) and were enroute to Isengard. On the surface, Saruman seems like one of the simplest Lord of the Rings characters to define. So it's possible that someone of sufficient power could break the Rings bond to Sauron. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Saruman had full control of his army, which is why the Hobbits were being brought to him (because they maybe had the ring), instead of immediately to Sauron (who at the time of their capture, they were much closer to). House of Dragons vs. Please message us if we have not credited you! Both the direct and symbolic aspects could have helped Saruman expand his empire by winning adherents and frightening potential opponents. If you know how to use it, its an *extremely* powerful magical artifact. You must log in or register to reply here. Tolkien's complex writings and retcons don't reveal a crystal-clear answer about Saruman arriving first, but if you go by The Silmarillion, Saruman did. The Lord of the Rings doesnt have plot holes. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. The content on this site is for entertainment and educational purposes only. This just had to be the best designed set, even better than the 2017 UCS Millennium Falcon! On the other hand, Sauron was not invincible either. This is what Sauron feared that his enemies would do, if they got the Ring; and that's the only reason he feared them. They got the identity wrong, but the Stranger felt the direction about Rhn to be accurate. There's the slight possibility that Saruman would have given the One Ring to Sauron and served as lieutenant to the most powerful being in Middle-earth. Letter 246 describes a hypothetical confrontation between a hypothetical Ring-bearing Gandalf and Sauron: Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. vegan) just to try it, does this inconvenience the caterers and staff? You would have both Saruman and Sauron focused in the same area and it is very unlikely Frodo would have escaped that level of scrutiny even with Gollum leading him on secret paths. Does this sword yield more power than the ring? What about Galadrial? Of course, Saruman was shocked to hear about the One Ring but wasn't going to help Gandalf conceal it because he had already chosen a new course of action. See Palantr Wikipedia . However, Gandalf knew that if he being an extremely powerful Maiar just like Sauron had taken the One Ring, he would become no different than the Dark Lord. Thus, while Gandalf taking the One Ring would have expediated the destruction of Sauron, it also would have hasted the subjugation of Middle-earth. He would simply wait and let the Ring do what it was made to do. Tolkien said of Saruman, also known as Curumo: The first to come was one of noble mien and bearing, with raven hair, and a fair voice, and he was clad in white; great skill he had in works of hand, and he was regarded by well-nigh all, even by the Eldar, as the head of the Order. But maybe thats a reason why hes Saruman and not Gandalf. They'd be capable of wielding it and would be a threat to Sauron, though Sauron would probably win in the end as The Ring was only . Mostly, though, he most enjoys writing about Star Wars. He had already copied Sauron in every other aspect. Saruman volunteered. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". First of all: Yes, you probably should watch at least The Two Towers before reading much further: that movie is all about Saruman's plans and schemes.. Having said that, there's a combination of things that have driven Saruman to act the way he does in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. The Vanyar were one of the tribes/families of the elves. Why are non-Western countries siding with China in the UN? Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? Many of the vague abilities listed above are also part and parcel to those abilities listed below. Saruman probably would have become the dominant power in Middle Earth and turned it into a pretty crappy place to live. And they are similar to, if slightly less powerful than, the Maiar? Sauron then spends the rest of his life torturing Saruman for daring to try and take the ring for himself. Even some of the imagery in his scenes screams Gandalf. So if Saruman mastered the Ring, he would become the next Dark Lord of Middle-earth. What would have happened if Saruman had gotten his hands on the One Ring? Eomer had no clue about rings and quests. In the case of Sauron it increased his ability to deceive people, entice people to his will, made him stronger and faster then he had been, wiser in the use of his raw poweress, "and he could see and govern the very thoughts of those that wore the lesser Rings of Power." That he will never do now." Saruman with the Ring would presumably have tried to do what Tolkien says Galadriel or Gandalf might have done, if they have succumbed to the temptation of accepting the Ring: He had also extensively started studying the lore required to make his own ring of power. However, Saruman had planned his rise to power much earlier than that. Answer (1 of 3): In short: nobody else could use it against him. Loyalty is an important theme in Tolkien's world and obedience to authority is paramount in a medieval setting as in Middle-Earth. *shrugs*. Either way, Saruman through torture or his Voice would have quickly learned everything about the Quest of the Ring. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. He wanted the One Ring. On February 26, 3019 Eomer, Third Marshal of the Riddermark, set out against orders from his king to hunt an orc band coming from the east. I would have thought that they would have been used against Sauron if at all possible while he didnt have the one. And hes got a considerable stronghold and force of arms with which to hold off Saurons forces until he can learn to use it. Saruman has his own glorious rise to power before falling to ruin. Exactly. It's interesting here that since both Sauron and Saruman were in origin Maiar of Aule, they may be expected to have some knowledge of each other, and that they would have some idea of each other's strengths and weaknesses. Saruman with the Ring would presumably have tried to do what Tolkien says Galadriel or Gandalf might have done, if they have succumbed to the temptation of accepting the Ring: "they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force." The situation in The Lord of the Rings was pretty dire. RELATED: The Lord of the Rings: 10 Details About Sauron's Costume You Never Noticed This incident, one of those that was invented for the film to increase tension, is an incredible missed opportunity for the minions of the Dark . In this scenario, Sauron likely would have recovered his Ring and covered all the lands in a second darkness. " The Hunt for the Ring " is a chapter in Unfinished Tales, a posthumously published work of J.R.R. Saruman was a wizard and warlord, in a fortress controlled by himself, garrisoned by orcs and men, and separated from Mordor by regions which were not Sauron-friendly. What exactly happened to Sauron when the Ring was destroyed? It may not display this or other websites correctly. Answer (1 of 12): I agree with what has been said. . Maybe, though i dont know that much about Sauman's power and. What would have happened if the Balrog of Moria had taken possession of The One Ring? Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? If he followed the strategy I've mentioned, his fighters would have to deal with the feisty Rohirrim, and would also run the risk of a flank attack from Gondor, before they could even get near Isengard. It would be difficult for Sauron. One can imagine Come join us to discuss the works of Tolkien. My own feeling is that since it takes time to learn to master the Ring (also Letter 246), Sauron would have had to pay a visit immediately and before Saruman had the time to achieve this mastery. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. Ap. At the same time, most of the Elves were leaving Middle-earth, and Saruman betrayed everyone and joined Sauron. Galadriel) might have been able to master the ring. And in The Rings of Power, when the . For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the . Despite an erratic and feeble end, for long he was one of the wise, and for long desired the ring; he could not possibly have failed to consider Sauron's response. But what does Saruman do now? cbr.com - Blake Hawkins 14h. Furthermore, Saruman knows more about ring-lore than any other being in Middle Earth at the time, save only Sauron himself, and he had already made himself a minor ring, so he would learn how to use it quickly. Narsil was made by the dwarves not elves. Was he not already the warlord of a growing realm, a commander of orcs and men? What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? Saruman Secretly Forged His Own Ring of Power in The Lord of the Rings. [ST:TNG] The First Duty what if there had been no accident? Then Sauron would have had the ring again and either he'd keep Saruman as a servant or just get rid of him for trying to be his equal. This one, too, was controlled by Sauron. ncdu: What's going on with this second size column? What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? Would he have given the Ring back to Sauron or would he have kept the ring and contested Sauron for power over Middle-earth? Gandalf and Galadriel both seem to think that they could take the One, and replace Sauron - if they can so could Saruman. I know Letter 246 says Sauron himself did not fear the Ring, would not have hesitated to confront a Ring-wielding Frodo, and could easily have forced Frodo to hand the Ring over. He also used his Palantir to spy on Sauron. Tolkein himself said that it would have been a difficult battle, and might have gone either way, but that One of the true great powers could have dedfeated Sauron by using the Ring. The chapter is a partly published version of a manuscript now held at the Marquette University (MSS 4/2/31-37); [1] other parts of this manuscript and a time scheme have been included in The . As such, Saruman wouldn't have been able to use the Ring against Sauron, per se. Saruman was most skilled in Ring Lore, save Sauron. 4 What if Saruman had never been corrupted? Even still, Frodo set the benchmark for hope and volunteered to take the One Ring to Mordor, where he destroyed it and saved the world from disaster. The heroes in The Lord of the Rings did everything to keep the One Ring away from Sauron, but what would have happened if Saruman had gotten it? A capable bearer would have all that power, plus whatever native power he or she had to begin with. Any idea what set any of these are from? If Saruman destroyed Sauron If he won, he would become a great L. With the more powerful becoming all the more corrupted. In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. When Sauron thought Aragorn had the Ring, he reacted with a swift military offensive. Would Saruman have been able to defeat Sauron with the power of the One Ring? What if the Stranger is Saruman? He did not fear Sauron, but rather was forbidden to contest with him directly. Soon (convenient term, soon) I will begin on the second volume of The Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers.It consists of two 'books', The Treason of Isengard and The Ring Goes East.The first 'book' of the volume deals with the adventures of Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas as they go in search of Merry and Pippin; this puts them all in conflict with the traitorous wizard Saruman's machinations. But Saruman was always too prideful for his companions. He and Nori leave for the land in the east at the end of The Rings of Power season one finale. You are using an out of date browser. I think the real point has been missed. Saruman arrived in Middle-earth midway through the Third Age, along with Gandalf and Radagast. What is the significance of Saruman's Ring? 5 Who controlled the Seeing Stone of Minas Anor? Saruman joined Sauron only partially. Thus, the power of the Ring is both direct (like the power of a weapon) and symbolic (like the power of a cult object). These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. He is Maiar. The Rings of Power finale took viewers on a ride with solved mysteries, reunions, and goodbyes. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Why does Gandalf seek counsel from Saruman about the One Ring after leaving Frodo in the Shire? The villain created The One Ring, where he put most of his power. You would have a situation where Saruman knows exactly where the Ringbearer is headed and Sauron knowing Saruman is suspiciously concentrated on the area from Parth Galen to the Black Gate. Frodo would have continued into Mordor and odds are he would have been discovered there. The Three were used against Sauron, but indirectly. Elbereth Vala Varda said: Saruman fell to darkness regardless. It's a good question. When Sauron was in Dol Guldur, he lay dormant most of the time. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. https://www.patreon.com/thebrokensword-----Also if you want to support in a different way then check out our Teespring page where we upload original designs for our merch! It allowed him to recover multiple times after his physical body got destroyed. He would have been able to control more people, and he would have had a much easier time dominating their wills. In any event, a confrontation between Saruman and Sauron seems as though it would not be a closely fought as the one between Gandalf and Sauron described above; Gandalf was able to cast-out Saruman, so it seems as though Sauron would have more easily had the upper-hand in such a contest. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. After a comment from Gimli, Gandalf adds: "But Isengard cannot fight Mordor, unless Saruman first obtains the Ring. As was made quite clear at the Council of Elrond, as long as the Ring existed Sauron could not fully be destroyed. Since both are immortal, Saruman is going to be tortured for a long, long, long, long, LONG time. He could turn invisible and go slowly crazy, which seem to be the width of the one ring's powers. The free people of Middle-earth had possession of Sauron's One Ring, but that was only a minor Read more on cbr.com. A Saruman prequel, an Aragorn spin-off and a Gandalf v the Necromancer thriller could all lead up to the fateful hunt of Gollum and the events immediately preceding the Lord of the Rings (with . Ultimately, we dont know who the Stranger is, aside from being an Istar, or a wizard. When the White Council was formed around T.A. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Saruman is ruined when the Riders of Rohan defeat his army and Merry and Pippin prompt the Ents to destroy Isengard. Seem's strange when the ring's main purpose was to rule over the rings/leaders? . What if: One of the primarch's had landed on the world of Avatar the Last Airbender. You are using an out of date browser. What happens next? Privacy Policy. Galadriel and Gandalf each made a conscious decision not to embark on such a course; but Saruman would not have hesitated. :)#LordoftheRingsWhatIf #Saruman #WhatIfSaruman But he didn't because Eomer disobeyed his king and destroyed an orc band that had the most crucial thing needed by both Saruman and Sauron - information. Saruman knew good and well what would happen when he tried holding Gandalf. This moment was part of an overall mistake, and they could be wrong about this observation, too. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. But if only one Istar has come to Middle-earth so far, Saruman is a strong candidate. Anybody else who bore it (non-stop) would eventually be drawn to him, where he would get the Ring back. What video game is Charlie playing in Poker Face S01E07? This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. - his malice and domination, or something like that. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? Gandalf was hand-selected and sent by Manw. Remember, the greater part of Saurons strength was poured into the ring. Doom. Chief among the powers of the ring that were feared by the White Council was the fact that if Sauron put it on now, all that had been done by the Wise using the three rings would be revealed to him, as would their minds, if they did not take off the rings. Let's first look at what would happen if Saruman succeeded, and then at his strategy for defeating Sauron. Since the One Ring is a part of Sauron it could only ever reach its full power under Sauron's control. Because the One Ring was the master to all . If he didn't get the Truth from Saruman, he could get it from the halflings and if they were dead due to Saruman, capture and question any of Saruman's orcs or men roaming between Isengard and the Black Gate. The Silmarillion says, In the likeness of men they appeared, old but vigorous. Only Crdan the Shipwright knew Sarumans identity. Thank you! Nori even said in the finale that the Stranger was there to help. Fury of the Gods Special: Shazamily Matters, A Lord of the Rings Theory Hints Tom Bombadil Was in the Movies All Along, 10 Sci-Fi Films That Bombed At The Box Office But Became Cult Classics. On the other hand, if the Stranger is Saruman, consider that journey and how it makes his transformation all the more tragic. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The Uruk-hai capture Frodo and Sam at Amon Hen, thus Saruman gains possession of the most powerful of the Rings of Power, which carries in it, a greater part of Sauron's inherent might. Amy Ratcliffe is the Editor-in-Chief for Nerdist and the author ofStar Wars: Women of the Galaxy, The Art of Star Wars: Galaxys Edge, The Jedi Mind, and more. He's the anti-hero in his own story who spends time with the Blue Wizards in the East, heads up the White Council, and eventually . What percentage of recruits fail boot camp? 2 What would happen if Gandalf had the ring? Saruman would have made a tasty little morsel for Sauron. But I've been thinking. In Tolkiens writings, they came across the sea. He said yes!" The pair had met through mutual friends years ago, but had an immediate spark when they reconnected last year. What TV series related to the "Matter of Middle-earth" would you prefer to see? Sarumaon told Gandalf that a new power was rising and noone could srand and therefore they should join that power. Sauron was stronger than Gandalf in the Lord of the Rings, but it has to be said that there were a few different shapes of both characters. (Letter 246). The first and most obvious reason Galadriel gets to hang on to her Ring - Nenya, the Ring of Water - from beginning (i.e. The Rise Of LOTR's Witch-king Of Angmar. I'm a little vague on this point. The first thing you need to realize is just how long a gap there was between the two trilogies. Gandalf & Galadriel admitted they would eventually fall to evil will of Sauron through the One Ring. Sauron w. Yet, he had something that needed to be done first. Seem's strange when the ring's main purpose was to rule over the rings/leaders? Was the "Eye of Sauron" Sauron's actual physical form? Saruman's power is that of influence, both in a political sense of his influence as the highest member of the council, but also in the sense of being able to have some control over other people . He reasoned that his total control of Middle . However, The Lord of the Rings TV series still left plenty of questions for future seasons. Probably, upon creation, Saruman was weaker than Gandalf and Sauron, and he spent his entire existence trying to increase his power, leading to his jealousy of Gandalf and eventual betrayal. Narsil was no ordinary sword, and the Numenoreans weren't ordinary men either. These are not some sort of machine gun, or beam weapon that is just leveled at the enemy, by anyone who happens to wear them. By the time of The Lord of the Rings, Saruman has become jealous of Sauron's power (and Gandalf's too). When given the opportunity It would betray Its wearer, and find Its way back to Its Master. That success would be the usual bitter victory, though, because first the new wielder of the ring would need to build his own power, and learn the mastery of the ring. Who controlled the Seeing Stone of Minas Anor? Would Saruman have been able to defeat Sauron? . Today we jump back in time to one of our older videos at one of our What If scenarios! Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. He writes about everything from NCIS to Stranger Things to The Walking Dead and everything in between.

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