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7 WITH ONE IN. Once the pin is removed the inserts can be exchanged to accommodate the users hand. Enter the Systems MR920 9mm. They are simple, reliable service weapons. While the Polymer80 complete and kit weapons are designed to replicate the ergonomics of Glock firearms, there is an important difference: In standard Glock pistols, the grip angle is 22. It doesnt seem to care whether its a JHP defensive round, light loaded target round or anything in between. Accuracy * * * * * The PFS9 and PFC9 represent the full size and compact variants, respectively. Same here. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The MR918 is available in several different frame colors and with or without a slide that is machined to accept a red-dot optic that uses the Trijicon RMR mounting footprint. Anyone who thinks they are something else has made that mistake themselves or bought into the mythology that military and police guns are somehow better. The only major advantage I see to glocks is that they are so common that their parts, accessories and maintenance are widely available. However, expect more weight with the metal frame than the classic polymer frame. All the while, the beavertail continues to reinforce that nice high grip. Its grip texture feels aggressive, and the high undercut trigger guard allows for a high grip. I get enough rolling eyeballs when folks see my S&W M&P, too. The ZEV OZ9, or Original ZEV 9, is the companys modular 9mm semi-automatic, striker-fired handgun that shares some parts compatibility with the Glock series. This sounds like a very nice semi-auto pistol. Yes. Select what level shooter you are! Dont like them. You might get an email response from them if you wait 3-5 weeks. More control means faster split times and more lead on target when you need it most. Somehow the message I wrote months ago is not listed. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. And the muzzle does stay down. Shadow Systems boasts of the gun being the Industrys flattest shooting pistol. While I havent shot all of the pistols to know definitively, I have shot most of the popular ones. Unlike a polymer frame, these gas pedals are more than just cuts but rather forged pedals allowing for more pressure and, therefore, more control. 3 models Shadow Systems Fighting Sights As Low As (Save Up to 15%) $54.99. Polymer 80 made their bones in the 80% lower market turned heads with their Glock 80% frames. Visit the Shadow Systems Completion Kits Page This might best be compared to a higher-end production 1911 such as a Kimber because it is a factory pistol with many popular custom features built in. Raven Concealment Perun holsterJM Custom IWB holsterNomad DefenseThe Nomad Defense frame is comparable to aftermarket frames from similar companies, and can be assembled into working pistols using factory or aftermarket Glock parts, or a combination thereof. Weve eliminated the trigger housing pin and locking block from this kit since your P80 kit includes those parts. A Glock is perfectly usable right out of the box and will do precisely what it was designed to do, trigger and all. While the Polymer80 complete and kit weapons are designed to replicate the ergonomics of Glock firearms, there is an important difference: In standard Glock pistols, the grip angle is 22. What if you wanted a Glock for every occasion but also only wanted it to be one pistol? By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Optics cuts come standard, and the mount fits the Trijicon RMR and similar optics. I never experienced that 15 +1 thing again because I went back to my normal 14 +1. Polymer80 has a different grip angle. I still wouldnt buy another one if you paid me too though. But if someone came to me and wanted one handgun, particularly for home defense, Id probably recommend a 9mm Glock-brand glock if not a 4in revolver. Click below for a FREE LESSON! The rest of the frame is pretty squared away as well, from the fine grippy texture all over the areas where your hand interacts with the frame, to the double undercut under the trigger guard, to the ledge built into the frame to allow those who use their support hand thumbs to fight recoil. Despite the rumors on the internet, the Gen5 GLOCKs are notably accurate for a service pistol. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. 24 Center Dr. Unit 6, Gilberts, IL 60136 . This is about Glock, not me and me S&W. The MR920 takes Glock mags, and to make shoving those mags faster into the gun Shadow Systems includes a massive magwell for speed reloads. The frame is built on the Glock 19 Gen4 pattern and uses a Gen4 magazine release and trigger housing. The frame has an elongated grip tang or beaver tail that keeps your flesh out of the moving bits of the gun but also helps to help keep the muzzle down on recoil. First, they offer an optics cut compatible with most major optic brands without the need for plates. I also used the Nomad frame with a G19 Gen4 pattern slide from Brownells. September 13, 2022, by The world is yours. Yea sounds about right. Then a few companies started offering factory 1911-style pistols with features many wanted but couldnt get as factory from Colt. Glock Clones are almost a dime a dozen these days. polymer 80 PFC vs Shadow Systems MR 918 Elite - YouTube Thank you everyone for watching my vids of the years and the support you guys show me and this channel. He is interested in helping folks protect themselves with firearms and shoot better at the range. Caliber: 919 The pistol also comes with an add-on magazine well thats held in place via the grip insert mounting pin. We have tested 1,000s and 1,000s of rounds . Its personal preference, but many folks prefer that more American angle on their pistols. The company made its humble start in 1963in Gussago, Italywhen Giuseppe Pietta made a commitment to produce guns as authentic and true-to-original as possible. The Hellcat is Springfield Armory, Inc.s most popular concealed-carrying pistol and one of the most modern and fully Glock pistols are unquestionably among the most popular handguns in America today. Have been thinking of another pistol for EDC; larger than my G43, smaller than my G17, but not a Glock. Now, if only someone would apply the same level of detail and produce a hot rod revolver complete with an excellent trigger that is smooth and does not stack to increase rate of fire and accuracy. Early Iraq days. Shadow Systems P80 Frame Completion Kit w/Elite Trigger (2) $186.17 (Save 27%) $136.21 5% Bonus Bucks. If you love to wear action movies and games outfits so must check the top 5 superb Cosplay Jackets which gives you a killer and stunning look on this cosplay festival. The popular Glock series of handguns has inspired several companies to produce Glock-like weapons for sale. I ended up ordering all their parts since they were so cheap, real down to earth and helpful from my experience and even their MR918 ( Polymer 80 build ) is a steal of a price, especially when considering the fact you get such great customer service. Well run you through why you might want a Glock clone (or not) and also give you some recommendations on which ones are best if youre in the mood to buy. That way, you can add a compact frame to a full-size slide and barrel. Check out our full review. This housing/ejector doesnt fit in my p80-19, p80-17, gst-9, or freedomwolf frames. MSRP is between $799 and $999. (, We noticed that you have previously logged in with your, Check what do you get by creating an account, Bookmark and compare your favorite firearms, 8 Best Custom Glock Clones: Glock 19 Alternatives. The slide is machined from stainless steel and is nitride treated. The enhanced frame really shines when run rapidly. Grip texturing could be more aggressive but the frame provides comfort and ergonomics that otherwise might not be available without a Dremel tool, a soldering iron and some automotive body putty. According to federal law, the receiver or frame is the regulated part (i.e., the legal firearm). This is very important for an everyday use pistol for both companies. I know the post is old, so it may be too late to provide this, but I have their first variation on the G19, the MR918. Cookie Notice If you need to change frames, the process is simple: Remove the takedown pin with a punch to detach the frame from the receiver. The manufacturer emulated the 1911 and used an 18 grip angle. To please the ones scared of a self-pulling trigger. The trend caught on and an entire industry introduced 1911-style handguns with the ergonomic and cosmetic features that had previously only been available via a custom gunsmith. Its the Beretta APX. Here are the features to watch out for. As a guy with big hands, Glocks also take a bite out of me. This can result in an annoyance in minor cases to a bleeding hand in extreme cases. Got to go with a Glock or 1911. I've built with both, they are 100% the same besides the side wall laser stippling with GG logo, The GG sides walls are more of a slick style vs the aggressive grip on P80s, think polished stippled plastic vs sand paper. Email: sales@opticsplanet.com, 9AM-7PM CT Mon-Fri IMI Defense Polymer flip-up sights - Rear and Front IMI Defense FSG1 Front Support Grip Provided with a designed bag Allen key Sling QD Port Owner's Manual Repair kit (detain pin, spring, locking pin) Overall kit weight (g): 3400. In addition, the slide has front and rear charging serrations, allowing you to rack the slide even when its wet and slippery. Im considering a steel frame PPQ because it takes a great shooting gun to the next level. Sights: High Vis. Manufacturer Review: Shadow Systems ClassicFirearms 1.29M subscribers Subscribe 4.2K Share 118K views 1 year ago Looking for a product featured in this video? We hate SPAM and promise to keep your email address safe. But I've put several hundred rounds through mine so far and its been a solid performer. It is faster on follow up shots, next purchase is full size shadow. The frame forward of and above the trigger has two textured panels the company calls recoil control ledges. The frame can grow from a Glock 19 to Glock 17 with a specific magwell or go full gamer with a massive magwell for the faster funnel of reloads. ZEV also went with the 18-degree grip, which aligns the grip and frame more with a 1911 than a Glock. At $300 $350 the Glock is a competitive sidearm, at over $500 it is time to look else where. You should also look for a Glock clone thats compatible with Glock holsters, especially if you intend to carry for self-defense or shoot competitively. For more information, please see our Customize This * * * * * As for not having manual safeties imo, if youre military and keeping pistols in molle cordura holsters and subjecting them to all sorts of violent forces, such as explosions, probably need a manual safety or a da/decocker. Maybe thats why they sell so many millions of them every year. Been contemplating selling my Glocks for a while now. Nickname. Yep, the design has spread like wildfire, and Gastons plastic fantastics are no longer just made by Glock. Yeah, its too bad that revolvers internal complexity (timing) and relative small market (compared to how many semi-autos are sold) make it tough to keep prices down. Here's the parts list for the first build: Frame - Polymer 80 / Coyote Brown Brownells exclusive Lower Parts Kit - Brownells Barrel - Faxon Arms, flame fluted and threaded Sights - Ameriglo Spaulding Slide - Shadow Systems G19 Carry Slide Upper Parts Kit - Brownells Youtube on sanding rails Takedown lever and spring drag issue Trigger reset issue But thats only because I have spare housings. Out of the box the trigger pull was closer to 5 pounds, but it has settled in over time at about 4-4.5 pounds at the tip with the soft wall break typical to GLOCK triggers set up with 3 or 3.5 pound connectors. An opps pistol.sorry about that ND! Now, they tell me they are modifying my slide and ejector. The biggest downside is that PSA seems continually sold out of these pistols so its going to take some time before they are easy to find. Rather than using recoil bosses, it has a pretty deep cut and it comes with three spacers of varying widths. A compact build, its well suited for both concealed carry and home defense. These cuts reduce weight and recoil via mass reduction. What are you looking for? As good as you can make a GLOCK pattern pistol without dramatically altering the profile of the grip. Well, then the ZRO Delta Modulus has you covered. Let that sink in one of the most widespread complaints of the GLOCK style pistol is the grip angle and for the most part you can make this pistol suit your preference. Gear Expert, Unless of course you are contributing to , in which case, have at it. This reduction in bulk makes the pistol more ergonomic and is especially notable for those with smaller hands. Not sure why its not on this list. Four ports at the top of the barrel vent gasses upwards, pushing the gun down and create one flash shooting experience without the extra length of a compensator. Between my crippled up hands, shoulders and elbow, if I can ever get it out, Ill shoot your arse! So, it makes sense they would dive into Glock clones eventually. Frame is splintering away inside at rails and flaking off next to my trigger mechanism. Due to price, it sits midway up the diminishing return curve. I had no issue using the Nomad pistol in a well-worn Bianchi IWB leather holster but the same pistol would not fit into a molded Kydex holster from Galco. Weve got a dedicated section for the AR-15 here. Honestly, its cheaper to buy a fully customized Glock than to customize a stock Glock piece by piece. But nothing is without a downside, clones included. They are reliable with a modern design, extremely simple to use, and easy to work on or fix. Fax: +1-866-534-3097 All metal components are forming burrs. I do like them because at this point, they are universal with countless aftermarket parts. Our Pistols. LOL! trigger pull, which is about a pound lighter than the standard Glock Safe Action System. Just kidding? Yes it will fit. I dont understand that type of thinking. The PSA Dagger shares parts compatibility with Gen3 Glock 19 parts, such as slides and barrels. receipt, and we'll cover the cost of return shipping. Shadow SystemsNow for the complete pistol from Shadow Systems, called the MR918. By the way i am a glock guy own many of them, that's what our dept was issued. The Kimber K6s has a great trigger. Ya but a Korth costs so damn much that most folks would say No. to it. The trigger system is a GLOCK Safe Action based on a Gen3 trigger bar, but uses the popular Taran Tactical connector and an aluminum trigger shoe that has a mostly flat face. Lone Wolf was one of the O.G.s of Glock aftermarket parts and pieces. But while the Glock has a safety lever in the center of the trigger face, the Dagger uses a pivoting trigger safety similar to that of the Smith & Wesson M&P series. $69.99. The pistol reviewed has a higher MSRP than many quite good revolvers. Shadow Systems' new MR920 polymer frame, 9mm pistol that features heavy texturing and custom ergonomics to improve on the venerable Glock-style design shown at SHOT Show 2020's range day. Polymer 80 PF940c; Polymer 80 PF940sc . Shop now and get Free Value Shipping on most orders over $49 to the Armor laughed at it, what a disappointment. Many of these shooters have either learned to live with these issues or have sent their pistols off to gunsmiths such as Boresight Solutions or Bowie Tactical Concepts for custom grip work. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. .of RealTree fame? PR Triggers has been developing this trigger since early 2019 and are ready to release it into the wild. Get even more OpticsPlanet Bucks with the purchase of select models to use on future purchases! Check out our review of the Faxon FX-19 Hellfire here or give it a rating below! And of course there are the usual "haters" that grumble about it. Head to the range this week with American Rifleman staff as they discuss a trim little repeater from Savage Arms that comes chambered for the .22 WMR cartridge. That dont mean they arent good guns! The RM920 optic cut bucks the prevailing wisdom on mounting dots. Reliability isnt the private domain of Glock any longer. Type your email address and well send Both pistols worked with a variety of factory Glock 19 magazines of various vintages as well as with the magazines made by Magpul. If a clone wont do and you need the real deal, check out our recommendations of the Best Glocks or customize your Glock with the Best Glock Upgrades. This should appeal to those with beefy trigger fingers, those who wear gloves, or who otherwise find the Glock trigger guard too small internally. Ordered 2 of these, first one, plastic broke. Its frame is built around user control with an aggressive beavertail, a dynamic trigger undercut, and a very aggressive grip texture. Thats because its noticeably thinner than the original Glock 19 frame. Funny how things change. According to ZEV, this reduces the vibration during firing for more effective recoil control. The OZ9 has a steel chassis, which is heavier than the standard Glock. No need to gather parts and play amateur gunsmith when Faxon can do it for you. The first frame supplied by Nomad, which was a very early production sample, had a fractionally oversized hole for the trigger housing pin. If you are in the market for a polymer 80 kit, try out our P80 Frame Completion Kit with Shadow Systems Elite Trigger. I can shoot the hell out of it VERY accurately out to about 35 yards! Long ago and far away, I learned not to trust gun safetys and circular saw blade guards. We saw the aftermarket continuously upgrade the Glock platform, pushing the design from high-end race guns to perfected defensive firearms. Which is just one of many reasons I love mine so much. With all that SIG has to offer in comparison, why would you? (Im one of them.). Sure enough, the issue went away at around the 200-round mark. Over 60% of the American police force carry Glocks. Let us know below! The Glock design has been surpassed by a number of different platforms, yet Glock will not truly update the design. Every striker fired polymer frame pistol on the planet shows Glock influence. I have been on the notification list for many months and never saw one available. But not all Glock clones are compatible with Glock holsters. A thousand dollar plastic handgunm. Strike80 grip is a little rounder, is more likely to have a bit of frame droop in the dust cover, and comes with a trigger mechanism housing pin that is too long. GLOCK 19 Gen4 accessories fit this gun. Ive owned a Glock 27 and a Gen 5 Glock 19. Rating. None of them. High-strength reinforced polymer frame. Shadow Systems Firing Pin Assembly fits Glock Pistols (3) $51.94 (Save 16%) $43.57. The Alpha Foxtrot AF-C Forged Pistol utilizes Alpha Foxtrot forged frame with their custom slide to create one interesting Glock design. As such, the Glock clone market gives you a not a Glock with Glock compatibility. But, unlike other custom Glocks, its a bit more practical in its design. The P80 PFS9 and PFC9 full size and compact chambered in 9mm are available with either 10-round magazines for restrictive states or standard 15- and 17-round Glock magazines. The MR920s older brother, the MR918, was released in 2018. Colt produced its 1911 Government Model for years with little or no variation. This year, H&R announced an expansion of its AR-15 lineup, bringing additional "retro" models to the market, including a 9 mm Luger-chambered Colt SMG clone, an M16A2-styled rifle and the carbine-size 723. The trigger guard is compatible with a variety of holster designs you dont need a custom holster for this pistol. The trigger and disconnector are nice enough that Im actually buying another one. Also, maybe you want a better grip angle, an undercut trigger guard, an enhanced beavertail, and the likewell, then a Glock clone is the only way to do that. Failure to eject, load and lock slide on empty mag. I've got one of the first ones made and of course they were delayed so it was a while before I got it. I agree with uncommon_sense. My S&W M&P has no safety. The Nomad 9 frame offers a number of ergonomic features that are not factory standard from Glock. YYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN! green and tan colors Keyboard Nav Stop Blinks Monochrome Sepia They offer a standard GLOCK-style backstrap replicating the grip angle of a stock GLOCK pistol. As is often the case with success,numerous companies have followed Glocks lead and have started producing similar pistols. The barrel is also cut from stainless and is conventionally rifled so it is safe to use with cast or swaged lead bullets. Summary. Height: 4.75 Travis Pike is a Marine infantry veteran, firearms enthusiast, and NRA certified instructor. We want to ensure that making a return is as easy and hassle-free as possible! Anyone regularly using a pistol in the military nowadays, is not using a nylon holster. You do not pay However, one of the most significant differences between the MR920 and a stock Glock pistol is the spiral-fluted match barrel. I have this pistol, its really good. This combination provides the reduced height of a Glock 19 for concealed carry with the increased sight radius of a full-size slide and barrel. PSAs Dagger provides an affordable Glock option full of features for a very low price point. I fired 2 shadow firearms MR-920 and DR-920 loved them both bought a XR 920 same as a glock mod 45 put a Riton red dot on it, now my EDC firearm. As part of our P80 frame completion kit you can find the Shadow Systems Elite Triggerour top-rated flat-faced machined aluminum trigger. Never liked them. Some dont have 10 full length fingers. Obviously, Glocks crappy plastic sights are tossed these guns wear Ameriglo sights instead. This is not normal and does not happen in any of my other firearms. Really shadow systems? Is there something else that brought down the score that wasnt mentioned in the other starred categories? The backstrap system is not a scabbed-on afterthought, but rather its built in intentionally. Yes. When people suggest otherwise they are simply making clear they have no idea what they are talking about. Shadow Systems' barrels are as impressive as their slides and the innovations continue. Trigger: 4 lbs purchase helps support my work in bringing you more awesome gun and gear articles. Aggressive texturing on the sides, front, and backstrap. I may earn a small part of the sale from links to any products or services on this site. Will be returning this and trying something else. What started out as an unusual combination of plastic and steel has now become an industry standard. They did all of this on a pistol they sell for a mere $300! Copyright 2023 Pew Pew Media, Inc. All rights reserved. Hand-Picked Daily GUN DEALS, and Exclusive Coupons Codes >>>. /rant about why you should already own at least 2 SIGS. I didnt write the review! I ordered the Glock 19 unthreaded fluted barrel, which is made of 416R stainless. The biggest issue with a Glock clone is that it doesnt have the factory support a standard Glock does. Unlike the Nomad 9, the MR918 retains Glock trigger guard dimensions and should fit in nearly all Glock 19 holsters on the market. Polymer80 introduced a series of 80% frame pistol kits, depending on the frame size youre interested in using. At closer distances off-hand clover leaf groups are a regular occurrence. Its not exactly a Glock clone in that some of the small parts are not interchangeable. Overall * * * * Its the same story whenever anyone posts a picture of a new GLOCK on the internet. The Canik TP9SF is also a good Glock alternative and has a great trigger. Oh, did I mention the frame is also made from metal? Capacity: Two 15 round magazines (PMag GL-9 15) Controls: Swappable magazine release Weve built dozens of ARs and well cover all the best AR-15 upgrades such as handguards, triggers, BCGs, gas blocks, and more. SOCOM carries Glocks, and numerous international police and military forces all choose Glocks. As part of our P80 frame completion kit you can find the Shadow Systems Elite Trigger our top-rated flat-faced machined aluminum trigger. Gen 5 was a joke. The trigger doesnt get in the way if youre trying to shoot fast or eke out as much precision as you can. YouTube prevents us from posting. Rounding out the features, the Overwatch Precision trigger gives a light and smooth pull. While its not for everyone, its a truly beautiful and functional feat of engineering. Made from heavy-duty .125 precision-formed Kydex. If someone had told us 30 years ago that the Glock would become one of the most popular handguns in the world, we would have been skeptical. But like I said, all things considered for a basic gun and for the price its the best deal on the list. Something different. Complete garbage. But as Glocks grew in popularity, so did their aftermarket. The MR918 is built on the Gen4 Glock pattern and parts will interchange between the Shadow Systems and the factory original. For more information, please see our We'll send you the latest guides and training tips geared The optics cut is optional, but if you step into 2021, you can rock a Holosun, Trijicon, Vortex, or Leupold optics. Like the Nomad 9 frame, the Shadow Systems pistol uses a system of interchangeable grip inserts to change the size and overall feel of the grip. It fits my hand. They ALL have nasty scars! system includes a variety of threaded screw holes to accommodate a variety of sight geometries along with the niftiest polymer spacers that keep everything snug. What if you want a .40, .45, 10mm? anything extra and your great review, the only thing I thought odd was your scoring with a final score of 4 stars, yet the average of all the other fields was 4.8, so at the very worse it should have gotten was 4.5 stars, or rounded to the next closest whole number it should have gotten a final rating of 5 stars. I just dont like them. I own one of these. Its grip features a massive undercut in the trigger guard and aggressive beavertail to maximize control and improve comfort. I could tolerate the grip angle until the Polymer 80 showed me I didnt have to. TRYBE Defense TRYBE Defense Pistol Slide, Glock 19, Gen 3, DeltaPoint Pro Cut, Version 2, Black Cerakote, SLDG19G3DPV2-BN, TRYBE Defense Glock 19 Pistol Slide, Glock 19, Gen 3, Venom Cut, Black, SLDG19G3VNM-BN, TRYBE Defense Glock 19 Pistol Slide, Glock 19, Gen 3, RMR Cut, Black, SLDG19G3RMR-BN, TRYBE Defense Glock 19 Pistol Slide, Glock 19, Gen 3, DeltaPoint Pro Cut, Black, SLDG19G3DP-BN, TRYBE Defense GLOCK 23/32 9mm Threaded Conversion Pistol Barrel, 1/2 x 28, 416R Stainless Steel, Black Nitride, TPBCONVG23-32-BN, TRYBE Defense Breathing Armor Reusable 4 Layer Water Repellent Face Mask, Adults, Gray, TRBMASK-1, TRYBE Defense Glock 19 Pistol Slide, Glock 19, Gen 3, Viper Cut, FDE Cerakote, SLDG19G3VPR-FDE, by The article is about clones. Incomplete receivers or frames, also known as blanks or 80% lowers, are not regulated as firearms. Its frame also features gas pedals to reduce recoil and improve control. Another 9mm striker-fired semi-automatic pistol. Why buy a Glock clone instead of a real Glock firearm? You have entered an incorrect email address! Shadow Systems took the feedback they got on their earlier model and have come back with something new. While the PSA Dagger is one of the least expensive Glock-type firearms on the market, the ZEV OZ9 is on the opposite side of the price spectrum. 3585 East Patrick Lane, 1200 You have to buy aftermarket mags to keep up with SIGs crush on the game. A tap on the rear of the slide would send it home. Grid defense make one too same P80 frame different side wall . Recently that same aftermarket has become so big and expansive that these same companies are now producing Glock clones. With over 35 years on the United S Springfield Hellcat vs. Hellcat Pro (Similarities and Differences), The Universal Elastic Mag Carrier: The Perfect Solution for Carrying Your Magazines. GREAT GRIP!! Holosun, Trijicon, Vortex, or Leupold optics. Another feature standard to the Nomad 9 is a slightly elongated beavertail. The Shadow Systems MR920 represents a killer value if you appreciate the features that it offers. There are two primary reasons: Features and cost. Barrel Length: 4 (unthreaded) 4.5 (Threaded)

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